Featured Interview: Dr. Roxanne Kamayani Gupta - Kuchipudi Performer and research scholar

Her dissertation is on a sect of Holy Men in North India. The title is "The Politics of Heterodoxy and the Kina Rami Aghoris of Banaras." The interview is mainly about her work and the book she has published recently. The book traces her engaging path in acquiring knowledge both in the Indian dance style Kuchipudi, and yoga. She openly writes about her doubts, discussions and trials, and this makes the book a refreshing change from more academic accounts. She also illustrates the yoga/dance exercises; she has developed with detailed written descriptions. The book is well illustrated and is worthy of a read for every artist and yoga practitioner.

Roxanne, you are a research scholar and a practitioner -how does this combination make you different from other dancers who have learnt the art in India or abroad?

Because my earliest experiences with the dance were undertaken within an academic context, I have tended to be more analytical about the tradition than someone who only wanted to perform. I have wanted to fully understand the dance's relationship to all aspects of the culture, its place in the Hindu worldview in general. I also think an academic perspective has made me somewhat critical of the Indian tradition, for example, the gender relations, the meaning that women's bodies carry in Indian culture. But I think these various levels of analysis have also deepened my appreciation for the art, and perhaps what I bring to my own performances.

More often than not with somebody outside India learning this style the
approach has been through academics and does this in anyway hamper or make the learning process easier for you?

In terms of the practical study of the dance, it definitely hampered me, especially in the beginning. I was always asking questions of my guru, wanting to analyse everything. Even now I suppose I do that to some extent and it drives my teacher Bala crazy in the class. She shouts "Just do it!" But in her own way she also has appreciated my analytic perspective. It has influenced her own view of the tradition in which she was raised.

How much time do you have for paying attention to both aspects of your career - professor and yoga/dance?

I have no time at all in fact! It is extremely challenging to keep up both parts of my life. I was recently turned down for an academic grant to do a study of Kuchipudi Dance. They complained that I had not published enough articles. Well every dance performance that I have created involves writing, conceptualization, translation of ideas, creativity and insight. But such projects don't count in the academic world. Add to that the fact that I have no desire to write a highly technical study that only a handful of persons in the world will understand. I am interested in communicating my ideas to a large educated audience. So being in the middle, both a performer and a scholar, is exactly where I have chosen to be, and if I have to pay by not belonging totally to either world, so be it.

Since your home is in the US how has it been for you? Do you require to go to India often and is that an absolute requirement for your art and yoga?

My soul requires that I go to India as often as I can, but actually, I can conceive of how I can continue my art and my yoga without ever going there again. When I was younger of course it was absolutely necessary to go regularly. But without any funding, and with family responsibilities here in the U.S., I could only afford to stay for relatively short periods of time. Now that I am concentrating on creating my own works (rather than just performing the classical dance) there is no need to be in India for that purpose. But I have other projects in mind, such as the development of study tours and a semester in India program, and they will keep me travelling to India for some years to come.

In writing this book do you hope to reach dancers or yoga practitioners? Have you had any feedback?

I hope to reach anyone who is interested in yoga, Indian dance and spirituality, whether a performer or audience member, a practitioner, or someone who simply wants to know more about Indian culture. I have already had such an amazingly positive response to the book, especially from women, that I feel fortunate to have published this book. What is wonderful is that there are so many women out there who are doing similar things, as if we are all picking up on the same energy. The Goddess is definitely moving!

What has been your experience with students who have learnt your style of yoga ?

I have had many experiences really, and my teaching style has evolved over the years as well. What I always try to emphasize is that one must make yoga one's own. Yoga does not exist independently of the people who practice it. It is not a system that exists "out there" to be fed into. Rather it is a technique that has to be adapted for particular persons in particular contexts. Mine happened to be yoga of Indian classical dance. Someone else might be quite different depending upon what they are doing with their life. So I can't generalize about my experiences with my various students except to say that I have encouraged them to learn the basics from me and then get into finding their own yoga.

Do you call yourself a yogini - how is that different from any practitioner of yoga?

I don't really call myself a yogini. The "yogini" is for me an archetype, an energy, an ideal that we are striving for. In the subtitle of my book "The Yogini's Mirror" refers to nature. As I explain, primarily in the last two chapters of my book, what is important about the yogini as an ideal is that she is feminine, so she represents a reclaiming of the yogic traditions, which have primarily been traditionally male, by women. Secondly, she is a dancer. Her practice of yoga is one that moves, one that embraces emotion and all aspects of life, therefore she does not deny or reject the world or her responsibility to it. She is not sitting apart from the world, she is dancing in the middle of it, bringing light into the darkest places. In fact, the yogini is a mediating figure--between nature and culture, this earth and the transcendent realms. I aspire to realize this ideal in my own practice but I cannot claim to have mastered it any more than I consider myself a Goddess just because I play that role on the stage! I see it as an ongoing process really.

Practising yoga is a private ritual and practising dance is a public spectacle. I have spoken with many senior classical musicians who have said that they do not experience or expect to experience "divinity " on stage whereas in private practise they have experienced spiritual bliss. What has been your experience?

Again this is something I have written about in my book when I discuss the rasa experience. There is a long-standing debate in the Indian tradition as to whether a performer as well as the audience can experience the rasa "high" during a successful performance. I believe it is possible, but it happens rarely. I also believe that there are degrees of rasa. My Guru Natraj Ramakrishna used to tell us about how he would actually leave his body during a performance and would watch his dance from above. That has never happened to me but I have sometimes entered into very peaceful states of consciousness while I am performing. More often I feel a kind of blissful wave of energy from the audience and that reciprocal exchange is for me comparable to a sexual act between performer and audience. Ideally as one progresses in one's art, the distinction between those "public" forms of bliss and one's private experiences in meditation for example, begin to break down. Hopefully the yoga of dance and the dance of yoga will finally flow into a continuous stream.

In your book you refer to "other western women" who have made dance their full time occupation? Can you elaborate on how you differ from them? Do you know of artists in India who take dance as a full time occupation and how are you different from them?

Without naming names (let them handle their own publicity!) I can say that whether western or Indian, it is not easy for any woman to make Indian classical dance her full time occupation unless she comes from a wealthy family who is truly committed to supporting her in the art. In the past, women were "kept" by the temple and with the fall of the devadasi (temple dancer) system and patronage of the kings, various government and private art organizations have tried to finance the continuation of the dance.
But, as in everything, money and political connections often count more than talent, therefore as a result, many good dancers lose out while others choose to practically prostitute themselves to survive. I try to keep my distance from the politics of the art world. Whatever little I have achieved, I have done it on my own. And to be frank, there is more to life than my dance. I am also a scholar, and my yoga, my inner life, is at least as important to me as my dance.

Can you elaborate on / or describe your dance performance "Adi Shakti: Dawn of the First Goddess"?

Adi Shakti is a "Yoga of Indian Classical Dance" presentation--a performance version of all that I have written about in my book. It is basically a one-woman dance drama that traces the evolution of the Goddess in the Indian tradition using movement from yoga and the language of Indian classical dance, various images, myths and translated verses from the Hindu tradition--both Vedic and tantric, all framed within the context of a discussion between a woman and her analyst. It is a very tantric presentation. As such it synthesizes yoga and dance, psychoanalytic insight and spirituality, scholarship and performance, drama and humor. Friends who have seen it have remarked that it is the story of my life, and others have said "it is all our story." For me both the book and Adi Shakti has been experiences similar to giving birth--drawing upon every last ounce of my energy--the results are offerings both from and back to the Great Mother, in thanks for my life.

Would you call the above performance part of the contemporary Indian dance stage or the traditional one? And if contemporary what are your opinions on the new directions dance is taking?

Adi Shakti represents a new stage in my life as a performer and a scholar. From and early age I was rather "brainwashed" by my gurus into seeing the art as something unchanging, the purpose of which was to keep the "tradition" intact, pure, continuous.
Perhaps as a westerner performing Indian dance I was even more sensitive to issues of authenticity. After all, I had to become more Indian than the Indians to be accepted in that world. But actually Indian classical dance has been constantly changing, adapting to the conditions of time and space over many centuries. This has been necessary for its survival. Even though Adi Shakti is a synthesis of many elements, I feel that I am not violating the tradition if I present the classical dance in a different context. What is most important is that I be honest about what I am doing. For example, Adi Shakti ends with a long classical dance to the Goddess. Everything else in the program leads up to it, and the dance itself encompasses the essence of the whole drama. By the time the audience sees the dance, they are really in a position to fully appreciate and understand what they are seeing. The dance form itself has not been violated at all.
Furthermore the entire program presents the Goddess in a way that is totally consistent with traditional Hindu beliefs. In fact, one of my purposes for creating it was to supplement courses on Hinduism and Goddess Worship, etc. at colleges and universities. However, I read the tradition from a "feminist" perspective. This is perfectly allowable as the wonderful thing about Hinduism is that there is no "one way" to interpret the traditional myths. The tradition itself is open ended, creative and therefore a constant source of new revelation.
As for whether something is traditional or contemporary, it can be both. The question is whether it works or not. Is it satisfying to the audience? Does it convey something significant? Do people remember it and think about it the next day?

What is it that you hope the readers get from your book and how has writing this book helped you or since the writing of the book what else has happened?

Because my book encompasses so many different aspects of the Indian dance and yogic traditions, I hope that different readers find different things in my book, whatever can help them on their path. For me the entire process of writing the book was a great learning experience as I reflected on how I had arrived at the point I have reached in my life. Much of the book was written in my Guru's house in India late at night after everyone else was asleep. I would sit at the computer in the dark and sometimes cry as I was writing, and re-living-- the various experiences I had gone through. It was very emotional for me because I miss my spiritual gurus that have "gone over" and yet at the same time I feel so fortunate to have been so blessed. This feeling of gratitude continues as my book has drawn many like-minded people into my life. Despite the dark times in which we live, I feel some hope for the future as I connect with others on the spiritual path.

What are your plans this year and next?

Besides my teaching and various academic projects, I plan to take my program Adi Shakti to many places, and to continue offering workshops in "A Yoga of Indian Classical Dance" as well. (Please see my website http://www.roxannegupta.com). I also have several pieces of writing in the works and I am working on creating "Dance of the Peacock," my own little yoga center here in Central Pennsylvania--named for my four pet peacocks who have been known to dance around the tree in my front yard. Life is amazing!

We thank you for giving your valuable time for an interview and we look forward to more books and performances from your side.